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 Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?

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illiguy
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PostSubject: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:52 pm

http://socialistworker.org/2015/11/24/you-mean-socialism-like-in-sweden

I thought this was a relevant read for all of us here. This is a battle I fight with myself constantly both in real life and in-game. Reform vs. Revolution. There are some days I think real reform is possible and happening, and other days I look at social democracy as an idea as deeply flawed as "benevolent slavery".
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Phoenix Quinn
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PostSubject: Re: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:58 pm

It's an important and difficult question. While reformism tends to leave the core dynamics of capitalism untouched, it does often improve the everyday lives of lots of people and who is to say that that is a "bad thing"?  And then there is the question of revolution, and particularly of "socialist revolution".  The 20th (and 21st) century track record here is not exactly stellar either.  

I tend to agree with recent comments that Chomsky made about how modern socialism is converging with certain anarchist trends towards a conception of libertarian socialism.  I also noted with some interest his observation (I am paraphrasing) that the most interesting work in create a humane, democratic, fair and modern secularism that is not simply a kowtow to either neo-liberalism or some similarly bankrupt ideology these days is probably stuff happening in Latin America.  

Likewise, in a similar vein, I don't think it is entirely an accident that the group that seems to be most successful in pushing back Daesh on the ground are the ex-Maoist anarcho-feminists of the Kurdish-Syrian YPG.

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illiguy
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PostSubject: Re: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:47 pm

I think you're right PQ in that the future of socialism rests in bottom-up anarchic type movements. Top-down socialism has proven to be too ineffective at actually lessening our dependence on capitalism when a reformist model is used and far too disruptive and violent when the revolutionary model has been tried.
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Artela
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PostSubject: Re: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:17 am

There is a kind of middle ground between full capitalism and full socialism. Here in the UK even the right wing mainstream party is to some extent socialist - for example, as a country we like our "socialised medical care" where we all pay in according to our ability and take out according to our need. It is entirely possible to have a mix of capitalism and aspects of socialism when those aspects are supported by the majority of the population. OK, so our National Health Service can sometimes be a little slow on the less life threatening stuff - but everyone without exception is entitled to medical care when they need it most free at the point of delivery (and there is still the option to pay extra for private care if you can for that stuff which isn't life threatening). I think because the socialism aspects of our politics here were driven from the working people of this country through the union movement they have kind of "stuck" Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:29 am

It's amazing how people always end up loving so-called "entitlement" programs. There was a lot of resistance to Social Security when it was first proposed, and now it's considered more or less untouchable despite various calls to privatize it. I just read that some of the states that heavily resisted the Affordable Care Act now have some of the highest rates of satisfaction with the expanded Medicaid and marketplace.
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TomCauchon
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PostSubject: Re: Socialism? You mean like in Sweden?   Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:45 am

I've always been a strong advocate for the Affordable Care Act, SS, Welfare programs. Illiguy you rightly pointed out what's going on, people are initially against such things, but over time tend to start supporting entitlement programs. In my belief, it's due to straight misunderstanding of what's being done. IMHO, the Republican Party feeds on people's fears of taxes rising, healthcare being taken out of their hands, and medical problems becoming public and not personal. The problem is these things just aren't true, and if more people learne about such programs we wouldn't have these problems. Just my opinion but still
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