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 FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.

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fingerguns
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PostSubject: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:14 pm

https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2625787/1/20

Hey SFP, I am running for President again.

Well...I guess I wasn't running for President last time, but you get my meaning.
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Ilene Dover
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:52 am

Now we know what you really think of SFP, getting any endorsement from us is going to be so much harder... For the record:



Verbatim quote: ...your party is garbage.
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fingerguns
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:26 am

Getting your party's endorsement is fucking impossible for me anyway.

I'm aware of this.

I suppose you'd rather I ignore your party entirely?
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:33 am

It's just a question of attitude sometimes. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:03 am

You got some balls for showing up and asking.  

Wow, Ilene, I'm really proud of how much you respect your party despite its fuck ups. You could have run away at any time, but you stuck around. I fucking love you.

/r/ lock.  Oh wait, I can do that myself. Smile
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Ilene Dover
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:25 am

fingerguns wrote:
Getting your party's endorsement is fucking impossible for me anyway.

I'm aware of this.

I suppose you'd rather I ignore your party entirely?

Well, with that attitude it's impossible. A better answer could have been that you no longer think we're garbage, after hanging out with Dylan and Jimmy. Or that you were angry and didn't mean it. Guess that ship sailed though.
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Ghost of Tom Joad
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:55 pm

It's only a problem because you don't show a lot of diplomacy.

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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:46 pm

Thanks for unlocking this, Jimmy. Kinda cheap to lock a thread and then post replies.

Anyway, my feelings about the SFP cannot change and will not change because I enjoy the company of some members. It changes when you guys do things differently, and in the last month you have. You're notorious for your complaining in Congress and acting like you are powerless victims. It is nice to see real discussions that can lead to proposals and eventually votes. You're notorious for your willful misunderstanding of game mechanics, but in the last month it seems more of an effort is being made to play the game as it is.

And despite this party running a known multi of chickensguys and being extremely complicit in the revolution, you haven't given people much reason to pursue you about it. You didn't fight for him, you don't seem to condone his actions even though the end result is in line with the closest thing you have to a party platform, and you are actively doing your part in Congress to right the wrong. Stuff like that doesn't go unnoticed.

And, additionally, I kicked komeko out of my cabinet because you guys were being dicks. Ilene quit because I asked her to use whatever influence she might have around here to get you guys to stop. She chose to step down instead. That could've easily kicked off a war but instead it led to some really good discussions and quite honestly better relations between us. Firm stances were taken and it seems like everyone chose to take the high road.

Again...Didn't go unnoticed.

I don't expect to get your nomination and once again I am not going to kiss your ass to try and get it. There is nothing I can do to change your priorities when choosing a candidate. Those are YOUR priorities. I lay out what I want to do with the term, should I win. If that seems like something you want to be a part of, come talk to me. The cabinet will be bigger next term and there will be more things to do. If the last month is any indication of the trajectory of this party, I'd love to have some of you on board, regardless of your support in the election.
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Ghost of Tom Joad
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:20 am

I'm happy to have a democracy. I'm not going to hide that.
What do you mean by saying we are complicit? Most people are friendly with him (To his face anyway.) Chicken Guys was hanging out on the eUS thread, too.

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fingerguns
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:09 am

Ghost of Tom Joad wrote:
I'm happy to have a democracy. I'm not going to hide that.
What do you mean by saying we are complicit? Most people are friendly with him (To his face anyway.) Chicken Guys was hanging out on the eUS thread, too.

What does being friendly have to do with anything?

If his multi wasn't a congressman, he wouldn't have started the revolution. This was literally just a way to get himself citizenship and you handed it to him.

You put his multi in congress knowing full well it was his multi. You played dumb when it was pointed out to you what a bad idea it was to put his multi into Congress, claiming there was no way to know if it was his multi (which was a weird tactic considering how openly this was discussed in your discord channel between party members).

Wooky joined his MU. Wooky is not a stupid person. He knew Foxes was CG. He knew CG was kicking off a revolution. He knew the consequences of all of his actions. He also just won your party presidency when he wasn't even a candidate, so from an outsider's perspective it is rather difficult to believe that what he has done AS party president was simply uphold the will of the party, like he's just babysitting buttons.

There are plenty of conclusions that could be drawn, but I think the conclusion that wins out depends entirely on what you guys do from here. There are certain facts in the matter than cannot be denied and one of those is that the SFP played a role in this. How big of a role? What was your goal? Did you even have one? Were you duped? etc etc etc You guys say you are writing history. So... what's it going to be?

I reserve judgement for now. I had a front row seat to Ajay in his prime and I watched that guy be so power hungry that he let himself be manipulated, all the while thinking he was in control. All he cared about was that he would be supported for his most immediate ends- putting himself into power. He cared very little about the motivations of his 'supporters,' but that is not something that should be ignored. Is that what happened here? You took someone in because they wanted to get rid of the Dictatorship and didn't stop to ask why or how they planned on doing it? This is what I am most inclined to believe, but as I just said, I have a bias here because of my experience with Ajay.

Maybe it was something else. Was this just fuckery and boredom and from your leadership (wooky) hoping to mix things up because he has no fucks left to give? Or was it something more deliberate? Was this a means to an end and you have a strategy from here? I honestly have no idea. I'm waiting for you guys to tell your story.

Again, I am not IN your party. This is just my perspective from the outside.

So yes, absolutely, undeniably complicit. But not necessarily 'guilty.' I guess we'll see. The court of public opinion is in session.
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Ghost of Tom Joad
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:48 am

It only took 2 votes to get him in congress. It's not like we conspired to get him in.

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Ghost of Tom Joad
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:56 am

We had an ethical obligation to run him, until he acted unlawfully. IMO. Same with you. We are ethically morally and legally obligated to host you.

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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:02 am

I honestly don't believe Marquis was the only one.
Also, rogue congress members happen often and it will always happen no matter how vigilant a person/party can be. The Feds experienced this many times because there were too many seats and not enough blockers.
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Ilene Dover
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:54 am

For the record, I didn't lock this thread. I don't know if I have the powerz to do that, and certainly don't know how to use them if I do.

To the actual discussion though...

Pointing the finger at SFP is a diversion from the real problem. The squalid and exclusionary nature of parts of the eUS community. CG asked to come back, and even wrote an article saying so. Congress voted on it and decided to keep him in the cold. Now I wasn't even playing when his original sims occurred so won't comment on how heinous or problematic they were. However they were ]years ago.

Congress of the time was clearly full of smug douches (some things never change), including yours truly. CG has means and ability though, he's not some 2-clicker scrub in it for the role play. And he's not stupid. Far from it, actually, if you talk to him.

It's not wise to exclude smart people of means, when they're asking to join a community (IMO it's not smart to be exclusive anyway, but w/e). So rather than agree that CG could end his timeout on conditions X, Y and Z (ie recognise a potential threat and move to control it) they slammed the door. Because that's what the eUSAForums community does. It excludes people.

SFP were just his vehicle. The same situation could have arisen involving BSP or WTP easily enough. Maybe Feds too (because vote stacking vs a long list). It's less likely in USWP, because of an opaque and arbitrary selection process. Blaming us for the dictstorship's downfall is intellectually lazy. Look to the root of the problem instead.

In terms of your reelection pitch. Although the things you've done this month are overdue and welcome, they could all have been done from a secretary position. You didn't need the CP buttons to do that stuff. I don't see any goals for the coming month outlined yet.
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fingerguns
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:57 pm

He could've chosen any party, yes. And maybe he would've been successful with another party.

If he had actually made an attempt to hide that Foxes was his multi and really put the work in, it's possible he could've gotten onto the Fed roster. If that had happened, then the Feds would be complicit in the revolution and would have plenty to answer for. And we would. We'd do it without prompt and without hesitation. We would drive the narrative and the action. We would try to make absolutely sure that if someone wanted to push the angle that "the Feds overthrew the government" they would look fucking retarded because we had made our case so completely. That's what the Feds would do (we would also immediately revive our security programs that were recently retired). I couldn't speak for what another party would do.

Based on these responses, I see you guys are in a bit of a pickle. You're not sure how you feel about him or this revolution and you do not agree on how to move forward. I don't envy that position.

Ilene- Your assessment is partially correct. What I set out to do last term and what I will do next term doesn't require in-game buttons. But I disagree that it could all be done from a secretary position. If there is one job I know I am super good at in this game, it's being a Party President. Overseeing many departments, keeping things organized and jumping in to do the work myself when someone is suddenly unavailable or it looks like we will miss a deadline. I set the tone, I mediate disputes, I fix problems. I also do a lot of media and engage in conversations with basically everyone who wants to talk.

I do have an affinity for domestic programs, most certainly because of my experience doing party work. I don't see this as any different than a President who is strong in foreign affairs or one that is big on defense and our military units (other than the fact that they don't trust other people to push buttons). I do not recall the last President we had whose strength was domestic issues. I've seen a lot of people run on promises to do things in that area, but I know I haven't seen one that was actually strong domestically since I returned. That's why the seemingly small things I did were actually big things that were long overdue, and they are things that have a more lasting impact than half-hearted game nights.

As I mentioned in my last article- the next term will also be domestically focused. It may seem boring or beneath the office of the President to you, but to me this is exactly what a President should be doing. We're not in the midst of a big war. We're not even on the cusp. Even though there was a revolution, there is little reason to believe we are actually in grave danger. Any of that could change, and because it could I will continue to have people on my staff that are perfectly suited for exactly those scenarios. But I'm not the kind of person who would lay out a plan for the term based on fear of objectively unlikely scenarios. I'm pragmatic. I know what's possible in the span of a month and I know what I need to get it done.

Anyway, I've written enough now that I probably should've just finished my article. So I'm gonna go do that. I appreciate that you guys talk to me during campaigns.
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:33 pm

The good part of coming back again the game recently and to have seen things only from the outside in my first years (2009-2012) is that I don't hold a grudge for things that happened, and I just judge from what I see since I start being active in the USA last month-or-so. As I said on discord yesterday, things seem so different in the chat compared to the forums, and I barely know why... the tone? To be honest with you, last month, I decided not to endorse you on the simple reason that the attitude on our forums wasn't what I could expect from someone whose goal should be to unit citizens as much as possible (knowing that it's not totally feasible ofc). And reading you this month, talking with you, working with you now as Congressman makes me wonder what I should do, because I can see more your good sides that way. Even if we can bring crap in the conversation and whatnot, but everyone does that hahaha

That being said, I just want to tell you that I appreciate that you do take your time to write to us, to ask for our endorsement as a party, and even to say in our face what you think is wrong with us. I know you're not afraid at all to say what's on your mind. I know that getting SFP endorsement could be a long chaotic way for you for many reasons, but you're still here. It could have been easy to avoid everything.

Just a quick thing. That's true we tend to forget a lot about domestic issues in Governments, and that we seem to not act in the eyes of the public. I liked the Air Shout Giveaway idea, DoCA's articles this month, I liked when DoD papers were updated...or were they? The problem we have had this month, and it's recurrent for almost each Government I served for, supervised or analyzed throughout the time, is that when a big war is there, it's easy to know in which battle to fight in priority, and then we tend to be very active doing it in official papers. We don't really take that time when there's no emergency.

France's official newspaper for the Department of Defense states national, allies and foreign priorities as usual, but also a very nice list of known TWs. It's quite handy to have to know if there is a real invasion, a mere training between countries or a friend nation in need. We as MUs try to get our DOs as useful as possible, generally trying to choose air battles for mass attacks and such, but we're also sometimes forgetting that our manpower could be used efficiently too. For instance, is there any need to move to fight in some cases, to get our strongest soldiers in specific battlefields? It's an international matter, but that affects our daily choices since most of us fight from home. Or I may just select a war at 80% cuz it's an air battle and lose my hits there, a drop in the sea.

Just my 2 cents (maybe 2 dollars with all this stuff Laughing )
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:00 pm

That is a very sharp assessment.

There were a lot of complaints this month about DoD not updating and a lot of MU leaders coming to me directly to stay in the loop. I take responsibility for that. I wanted a lean, mean cabinet for the month and may have cut too deep into the staffing. I also expected my cabinet to be totally in the loop with everything. Not everyone was used to working that way and ended up distracted by work in other departments instead of just aware. That's something I will correct next month.

When I say my focus is domestic, that does include how we communicate defense and fa to our people. Last month there was a lot of behind the scenes cleanup happening but this month there can be more public-facing work since more people will be around to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:25 pm

[FG4CP] Much policy. Very cabinet.

https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2626038/1/20
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Eddie A.
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PostSubject: Re: FG4CP - I didn't ruin everything.   Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:52 pm

A lot of time and posts were wasted here. And I see a bit of attitude here too, I maybe wrong.
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